Mar 24, 2020
Welcome to the LinkedIn Ads Show.
Resources for this week:
LinkedIn Ads
vs FB Ads for B2B Video
Marketing Land Article – FB :37 min per day
Wordstream article from 2018 with 17 mins per week
Course
Contact us at Podcast@B2Linked.com with ideas for what you’d like AJ to cover.
Transcript:
Facebook ads are all the rage and have been for years in the world of digital marketing. But how do they stack up versus LinkedIn ads for B2B in 2020?
0:16
Welcome to the LinkedIn Ads Show. Here’s your host, AJ Wilcox.
0:23
Hey there LinkedIn ads fanatics. So Facebook ads are incredible.
And so many marketers swear by them. And it’s probably all you’ve
heard for the last five years. But they’re sure a heck of a lot
harder to make work for B2B companies. So let’s walk through what
you should be using Facebook for and what you should be using
LinkedIn ads for, and you’ll find they actually work quite well
hand in hand. Let’s hit it. So first, a little bit about each one
of the platforms. So Facebook, and I’m sure so much of this is
going to be like, like, yeah, AJ, we get this. We know what
Facebook is. But it’s a social network that owns about nine percent
of your social activity. I mean, between the time that you spend on
Facebook and Instagram, and WhatsApp and Oculus VR, and any other
sort of Facebook properties out there, it is an incredible time
suck and it’s a place where they have access to you. It’s so very
powerful for B2C. The interest targeting the level of data that
Facebook has on you that marketers can then leverage is incredible.
They also and we’ll go a lot deeper into that this, they have the
best retargeting technology on the planet. And it’s not the most,
it’s one of the most recent ones created. So they’ve done amazing
things. And just by virtue of their technology, and the way people
use it, it makes it the best retargeting platform. It’s also really
insanely good for the top of the funnel, because it’s cheap, and
this is what display is supposed to be. It’s about getting your
message in front of people who haven’t heard of you before, but
also because of their amazing retargeting technology, it plays a
significant part all the way through your buyers journey as well.
So it’s not just a top of funnel strategy. We know that because it
owns about 90% of your social activity, it has high usage. The
averages that we see are somewhere around 37 minutes per day used
on Facebook. And that’s a lot of time where marketers can be in
front of you. It’s a very intensely personal platform. This is
where people go to connect to people that they love their friends.
And that’s the mindset they’re in is really connecting, consuming,
and generally being entertained. LinkedIn, on the other hand, is
also a social network, but it’s very, very different. It’s focused
100% around who people are professionally. And if you’re listening
to this podcast, I know this is probably not news to you. But
LinkedIn started out as kind of like your online resume, and it
started that way, but ended up becoming something into like, where
you consume professional content and get advice and connect to
people. So LinkedIn is really in this resurgence right now or I
guess it’s not resurging, it’s a surgence. Starting from where
people didn’t really know what it was good for to now we’re seeing
a lot of value coming out of it. Now, LinkedIn does not release
their usage numbers, but estimates from a 2018 word stream study,
say that people spend about 17 minutes per month on LinkedIn. And
we know usage has gone up significantly so I wouldn’t be surprised
to see, you know, 25-30 minutes a month, on average, maybe even
higher here in 2020. But, you know, LinkedIn does not release these
numbers, probably because if you compare them to what Facebook is
at 37 minutes per day, 25 minutes per month doesn’t sound very
amazing. But because of the capabilities of the platform, and if
you’re listening to this, I know you believe this. It’s very, very
worthwhile. We all know that LinkedIn ads are expensive. But you
know, we get the best b2b focused targeting on the planet. And that
makes it worthwhile for the vast majority of us. It’s also best
used for the middle of the funnel, as we learned from Episode 01,
if you listen to that, and that’s really where we want to focus
with LinkedIn. It’s too expensive to be at the top of the funnel,
you know, at $8 to $11 bucks a click, it’s pretty hard to send
people to your blog posts or whatever. And because it’s a social
platform, we can’t send people right to the bottom of the funnel to
buy something or hop on the phone with a sales rep with any sort of
volume because it’s just too much too soon, so it plays best in the
middle of the funnel. Okay, so jumping into Facebook’s pros,
because there are a lot of pros to it. I will never knock Facebook
as a platform. It’s got some incredible technology. It’s just not
always of the best use for my clients, but I certainly respect it.
So first off, we’ve talked about retargeting. How they have the
best retargeting platform on the planet. And because of their
amazing reach of having 90% of social activity. When you do
retargeting, you can be in front of someone, you know, during so
much of what they do and interact with online. That’s pretty
amazing.
5:15
They also have a technology called look alikes that LinkedIn
recently rolled out look alikes. But Facebook has incredible look
alike. You can pretty much create a look alike off of any data set
that you have. If it’s a retargeting like a web retargeting
audience, or maybe a list that you’ve uploaded, or something like
that. There’s a slider from 1% to 10%, where you get to say, here’s
how tight I want you to make my look alike. So if you leave it at
1%, the minimum This is going to make it the tightest audience that
Facebook knows how they’re going to not explore very far outside,
just the immediate criteria that makes that person valuable to you.
And you can slide it all the way up to 10% where it’s like, hey,
show this to anyone who is remotely like this person and everything
in between. Very, very cool. But realize that this is a machine
that you have to feed with good data. The garbage in garbage out
model is especially effective here. If you feed a look alike
audience with garbage, it’s going to give you a totally unrelated
audience, that’s not going to be helpful. And vice versa. You feed
it with great data, like, here’s a list of all of our past
customers who have already paid us money. And it might give you a
really good list of potential customers you want to go after.
Facebook is really good at their optimized objectives. They have so
so much data on each person, because they have their whole personal
life there in front of them. So all of these millions and millions
and millions of interactions, interests likes, who you’re connected
to. All of that plays really well into their model. So when you
tell them I want you to optimize towards this objective, lots of
times it nails it, Facebook video and ads have been incredible for
a long time. Now there’s kind of this regular ongoing battle
between people who like Facebook video ads and YouTube ads, because
they are a very different kind of model how you pay for them and
how they’re used. But it’s really hard to deny Facebook came out
with video ads very inexpensively. Of course, they lied about how
many times your videos were getting seen and all that early on.
They’ve set the tones for that. But even still, video advertising
on Facebook is very inexpensive. And the best part it works right
in with their retargeting platform, you can put two videos in
sequence and say once you’ve watched 50% of my video, now I want to
show you the next one. And we’re going to get that with LinkedIn
here in October of 2020 is current estimates. But yeah, Facebook
started with it and it’s great.
7:51
There’s also some functionality around events that are really,
really cool. So you can run event ads on Facebook, that and then
you can actually retarget anyone who clicked that they were
interested. And they also have a native integration with
Eventbrite. So if you’re putting on a kind of in person event, it’s
a, an incredible ad format that I hope LinkedIn has a copy of at
some point. And what I’m imagining is, if you had something like a
digital meeting, like a webinar or a summit, something like that
could be really cool on LinkedIn. And when you use an event ad, the
day before your event happens, you get a free push notification to
anyone who said that they were interested, which I think is
awesome. Facebook was one of the first to the chatbot game. So you
can go in and do a type of ad format called messenger ads. And you
can do lead generation through messenger with prompts instead of
form fields. And that really leads to high conversion rates, makes
you feel like you have a relationship with this company because of
how interactive it is. And you can connect with things like drift
and mobile Monkey and other chat bot types of software. And then
really keep in front of people keep conversations alive, keep a
relationship happening. And that’s again, something I think
LinkedIn will fall into step with here at some point. But you know,
for right now, Facebook is just amazing for the chat bot experience
where you don’t have to have a live human chatting with someone.
Now, Facebook does have some targeting around B2bB that you should
probably be aware of. They have things like your job title, your
industry, company name, and they used to have things like company
size, office type, seniority, and other types of targeting. Now, I
don’t know what was fueled by Facebook guessing or how much was fed
by third party data sources. But the B2B targeting on Facebook has
always been really rough, very small proportion of people I’m
estimating something like 4% to 6% of people would even bother to
write their professional information in so there’s just not much
there to begin with. And those who did have it, oftentimes it would
be outdated, they would have their position from, you know, six
months ago or a year and a half ago listed. And then, of course,
all of us B2B marketers, we would target these same people by job
title, because that’s who we want to go after. And we would try to
max that out. And so it becomes competitive really quickly driving
prices up. Facebook also owns Instagram. So Instagram reach is, you
know, great right now. And it’s such a hot network, the younger
generation tends to have really adopted Instagram. So the older
generation going to be on Facebook, the younger going to be on
Instagram, with a large subset of the population using really both
Costs on Facebook have always been a subject of interest, because
they started out being very low cost. And we keep hearing rapidly
how costs are rising on Facebook, sometimes triple digit
percentages every quarter. So we’re getting to a point now where
Facebook is going To start getting into the realm of being LinkedIn
expensive, but there are still opportunities, there’s tons and tons
of inventory out there. And they’re always opening up new
targeting, new inventory, new ad formats, which really do help keep
costs low. But you know, certainly, we’re seeing costs rise
quickly. And people do spend a ton of time on Facebook. It’s really
the go to app, especially with messenger. You know, people are on
there talking to their friends all the time. This is definitely a
network where people will spend a lot of time. And of course,
Facebook is not all sunshine and rainbows. On the con side here.
When you put B2B stuff on Facebook, it’s perceived as boring and it
tends to get punished with really heavy costs. So on the B2C side,
you might see costs in the, you know, .30 to .80 cents to get
someone to your website. But on Facebook, you might see it’s really
hard to get someone onto your website for a B2B offer. You might be
looking at similar cost per click clicked to LinkedIn. I was
looking at an example yesterday with someone paying $6 to $12 per
website visitor from Facebook. So yeah, that’s definitely
definitely in LinkedIn territory. And of course, like we mentioned,
the cons here about Facebook, the B2B data that it has is outdated.
And also, you know, pretty weak. It’s not over much of the
population. And as soon as you’ve really maxed out the data that
seems to be pretty exact for you in b2B, like around job title or
company name, of course, you then have to scale up and start
getting into things like interests and other ways of targeting your
type of professional, and of course, costs come down when you do
that, but so does your lead quality. So your quality of lead gets
really low on Facebook because of how weak the targeting is. But
it’s also less expensive in a lot of cases. So people want to start
there. They want to dip their toe into the B2B marketing or social
advertising realm there on facebook. And that makes a lot of sense
to me. When you are a b2b advertiser, you have to understand the
mindset that they’re in, they are most likely distracted, they are
there to be entertained. They could be on their way to go play
Farmville, they might be looking at pictures of grandkids, or
anything in between, you just don’t know. And so if you’re giving
them an offer, it’s really hard to predict what mindset they’re in
and how ready they’re going to be for that offer.
13:27
All right, let’s jump into LinkedIn then. The pros, people are
there for work, they’re in the right mindset. And what that means
is you give them an offer that augments either their professional
life, their career, and they’re going to have high conversion
rates, and really hold you in a professional, very favorable kind
of light. As I’m sure you know, it has by far the best targeting
for professionals on the planet. So you as a B2B advertiser, you
care about this targeting a lot. You want to be able to target them
by their job title, their department, their seniority, their
skills, the groups that their members of, their company name, their
company size, industry, skills, groups, all of these things really
spell out exactly the way you’d want to target and speak to your
ideal audience here. And one of the favorite things of mine about
the network is not only is this targeting amazing, but if you’re
targeting white collar professionals, especially in North America,
where I am, so many people, so many of these professionals have a
LinkedIn profile. And so it’s really near perfect scale. Whereas on
Facebook, you might hope to hit you know, 4% to 6% of your ideal
target audience, because that’s really all who would bother to put
their professional information into their profile. On LinkedIn, you
might hit 95% of them as long as you’ve got the budget for it. So
it’s a great way of giving you perfect access to your ideal
audience, even if the costs are quite high. We also know that
LinkedIn professionals tend to keep their profiles up to date,
because it’s a reflection of their professional self. They are
interested in what other people think about them and know about
their careers. And this is really the point of LinkedIn. This is
where you go to kind of update your resume, as people expect. So
LinkedIn tends to have the most updated version of, you know, where
someone is at in their career. I like to joke that I, you know,
LinkedIn is the second person to know after I make a career change,
after my wife, I tell my wife first, and then I go and update my
LinkedIn, because I’m proud of who I am professionally and I want
everyone that I’ve done business with in the past to see what I’m
up to. And, you know, be able to also generate leads going forward,
because as long as people know what it is you’re doing, they can
refer people and so it becomes this virtuous cycle. The lead
quality from LinkedIn tends to be crazy high, and that is probably
because of two different factors. Number one is the targeting
you’re only going to target the people who would make a really good
fit for your product or service, of course, but then it’s also
really high quality. Because the mindset that people were there for
when they saw your ad, they didn’t associate you with the belly fat
ads of Facebook, they associate you with their colleagues, their
work, their professional life, and so they’re going to tend to
trust you more right off the bat. Now, certainly LinkedIn has its
cons as well, chief and foremost here, is the cost. Now we’re
seeing an average cost per click of between $8 to $11 cost per
click right now. And that’s only going to rise. You know, some of
our clients have to bid in the $14, $15, $16 range to get traffic.
Certainly we have clients who are paying well below that as well.
But that’s really the new normal, this is where we’re going to be
paying.
16:44
You also have to grab their attention quick, because while they’re
on LinkedIn, they are usually busy, they’re on their way to go do
something. And so you’ve got to get the value out very quickly. On
Facebook, the real common knowledge and practice is make your ads
long, tell a story, try to lead them in, and you know, tease them.
On LinkedIn, you don’t really get to bug someone for 45 seconds
while they try to figure out what you’re trying to sell them. You
really have to get right to the point. So think on LinkedIn, you
move quick. And that’s not necessarily a con, it’s just the
approach you have to use. We also know that LinkedIn tends to be
pretty middle of the funnel, because of the cost. Like, it’s
difficult to treat it like a top of funnel platform. When the costs
are so high. It’s, you know, maybe middle of funnel cost, but top
of funnel type of mindset. So if I could have my wish with
LinkedIn, I would love to see costs go down. So we could treat it
as more of a top of funnel type of traffic, but because of the
cost, we have to send them right to the middle of the funnel, most
of the time asking for some kind of information in exchange for a
content asset of some kind. Okay, now we’re going to take a quick
break for a sponsor, and then afterwards, we’ll dive right into
some other areas here, like retargeting and how each of these
should fit into your marketing mix.
18:07
The LinkedIn ad show is proudly brought to you by B2Linked.com. The
LinkedIn ads experts.
18:17
B2Linked as an ad agency and LinkedIn ads is all we do. So fill out
the form on any of the pages of B2Linked.com to get in touch, and
our team will help you enact all of these strategies and more to
get you the best ad performance. All right, now we can jump right
into retargeting. So LinkedIn has a retargeting platform as of
2017, as you’ll know from Episode 03, where we went through the
whole history, and the retargeting platform is just it’s pretty
weak and nothing against LinkedIn on this. It’s a technological
hindrance here. The reason why is because the retargeting is all
cookie based. And we know that half of LinkedIn traffic comes from
mobile and about half of mobile traffic is on iOS devices like
iPhone, iPad, and those and any Safari browser, or Mozilla Firefox
browser, none of those will accept this third party cookie. And so
immediately, you know, let’s say you pay for 300 visitors to come
to your website, because you know that the minimum audience size to
retarget on LinkedIn is 300. But then you find out I’ve actually
got to buy more like 600 visitors to my website before I’ll fill up
that that audience so that I can start targeting them. So you
really have to have a high amount of traffic for this to really be
valuable. And you know that half of your visitors won’t even
qualify to be retargeted. The other thing about LinkedIn
retargeting is that people don’t spend very much time on LinkedIn.
And so if there’s not a lot of time to get in front of them. Not a
lot of opportunities for you as a marketer to stay top of mind. And
it’s not exactly inexpensive either. You know, we see that if we
pay $10 bucks for a click, we might pay $5 for a retargeting click.
So it’s not a huge discount, but certainly it is appreciated. And
I’m not telling you that you shouldn’t use LinkedIn’s retargeting,
you absolutely should. There’s no reason not to because it’s
certainly cheaper and it’s a way to get in front of a warm
audience. But if you’re relying on it on its own, you’re missing
out on a lot of value. So the retargeting Dream Team, as I like to
call this, and I would recommend you send all of your traffic,
maybe not all, you’ll have other traffic sources too, but you’ll
use LinkedIn to send exactly the right people to your website. But
then you’ll use Facebook’s retargeting platform, which is the best
tech on the planet for retargeting to stay in front of them. What
that gets you is this ability to stay in front of these people that
you might have paid $8 to $10 bucks a click on LinkedIn to acquire
them. But then once you have them on Facebook, you might be paying,
you know, $1 to $1.50 per click to your stay in front of them and
that’s incredibly powerful. Not to mention Facebook’s retargeting
is all engagement based, so it doesn’t rely on the cookie like
LinkedIn’s does. And so any action they take whether they are on
desktop on mobile, they’re always logged in Facebook has an
incredible reach and insight into who these people are. And you can
stay in front of them on multiple machines. Basically, wherever
they are on the planet. It’s awesome. Now, Google’s tech is not
half bad either. If you’re retargeting on Facebook, you pretty much
get access to them anywhere on Facebook or Instagram. But if you do
the same retargeting logic on Google, you get access to probably
90% of the web, which is what we call the Google Display Network,
or GDN. And this is a great way of using very similar awesome
retargeting technology for very inexpensive to stay in front of
people wherever they are on the web. So Facebook hits them on
social Google hits them on the web, that is my ideal retargeting
audience. Now, when we get Engagement retargeting from LinkedIn,
I’m definitely going to recommend layering that on there. And this
is probably in October. So if you’re listening to this after
October, I hope you in the future are getting to use this. Then I
will probably recommend always using all three. And I’m really
excited for LinkedIn’s retargeting to get much better so that I can
use a lot for exclusions. That’s my excitement there.
22:23
So as you’re thinking about your marketing mix, what part really
should Facebook play in that? Well, I would say if your audience is
on Facebook, and you can reach them there for less expensive, then
I would go at it all day long, I would put as much budget towards
it as possible. But let me qualify this when when I say if you can
reach your audience there for less expensive, I don’t mean if you
can show your ad there for less expensive because you can. I mean,
if your cost per qualified lead is less on Facebook than it is on
LinkedIn, then I would continue to invest there and I would invest
big. This doesn’t always happen. And in fact, it doesn’t happen
really often at all, for my experience, because Facebook sure is
cheaper. But as soon as you start throwing out all of the bad
leads, because they were unqualified, or they were mom and pop
kinds of audiences, you know, tangentially related, you start
looking at, okay, what do we actually get for the sales team here,
and lots of times you’re going to notice that your costs are much
higher than they even would be on LinkedIn. So your job as a
marketer is to get much more sophisticated than the platform’s are
by default. It means you have to use these channels at the
acquisition level, and then blend them all with their costs after
the form fill with a CRM to get this data and understand what your
cost per qualified lead is, or cost per proposal or cost per closed
customer. All of these are things that none of the platforms will
give you readily, but you as a sophisticated B2B marketer are going
to be able to do and you will be able to see exactly how much you
should continue to spend on Facebook versus LinkedIn. I would
suggest here that Facebook is really good for dipping your toe into
the water of social ads, and getting a feel for how people like
your content and your ads. It’s a really good testing ground, I
think, because for not very much money, you can put your content
and offers out there and see how people engage with them. So if you
are a small company just getting started, or you don’t have very
much budget, I love the idea of starting on Facebook, put an offer
together, target the very best you can and just see, does my
content get a 6% conversion rate? Does it get a 50% conversion rate
or somewhere in between. And keep in mind that if you’re doing
business for business sake, you’re probably not going to work very
well on Facebook. What I mean by that is if work is a core part of
you, and you hang out with your friends talking about work, then
Facebook is going going to be a good place to get in front of those
types of people, because they’re going to be on Facebook, and
they’re going to be in this business mindset. If you’re going after
jobs where people tend to check out at 5pm, and they just don’t
want to be thinking more about work, then reaching them on
Facebook, when they’re trying to take their relaxation time is
probably not going to work very well. There are some segments that
I found to be very reachable on Facebook. And that would be things
like small business owners, freelancers, real estate agents, people
who are into MLM or multi level marketing. Those are the types of
people who really make Facebook their playground, even if they
shouldn’t. This is just, it’s where they’re comfortable personally,
and then that’s where they try to build their businesses. Now,
forgive me for the ammunition and the guns reference here. But I
like to think of Facebook like a shotgun approach to marketing.
It’s one bullet that doesn’t cost very much but it spreads really
broadly across a target. It’ll hit the target a few times, a few
times it’ll miss, it’s really good value. And you can really do a
lot of it, you can do a lot of damage, tends to be a very broad
kind of approach, not very precise. So then as we start thinking
about LinkedIn, how it plays into your marketing mix, let’s carry
that metaphor a little bit further. LinkedIn is really a lot like a
sniper rifle kind of approach to marketing. It is highly targeted,
you are going to hit that target come hell or high water, it takes
a much more thoughtful approach. And you know that a shotgun shell
doesn’t cost very much, but that sniper round costs a lot. And so
you invest a lot more into it. And you really only get a few shots
on goal with this. Whereas Facebook, you kind of get to spray and
pray a little bit. And if you have a very narrow subset of highly
valuable target audience, LinkedIn really is a no brainer. I was
talking to a client the other day who has a an audience of 3,000
people worldwide who could buy their product. And I said, it really
doesn’t matter what you offer them, you should just be in front of
them at every possible turn because if there’s only 3000 people
that doesn’t cost very much on LinkedIn to stay in front of them
and get every chance for an impression, you can. Now you are
obviously a sophisticated marketer if you’re listening to this. So
you’re going to be measuring how the leads convert past the initial
form fill. And this is where LinkedIn really wins, because everyone
who isn’t measuring is, is complaining about how high the cost per
lead is, or cost per form fill, but you’re going to go deeper,
you’re going to be measuring what’s my cost per marketing qualified
lead from the CRM, what’s my cost per sales qualified lead, my cost
per proposa,l cost per closed deal, what’s my ROI, and as you’re
doing this, you will be comparing the platforms and my guess is for
the vast majority of you, LinkedIn is going to start looking really
good. Sure that initial cost per click is high, but your access to
the most highly targeted, the most valuable prospects that would
ever do business with you is totally unprecedented.
28:09
So as we start talking about opportunities here, and you know what
the outlook looks like for each of these networks, I would say that
on Facebook, B2B brands tend to be pretty hung up on brand image.
And so they tend to keep things pretty drab, which on Facebook, you
really have to come across as conversational, as fun, as funny. And
so Facebook does not work very well for B2B brands, unless they get
a little bit fun. And on LinkedIn, lots of people are starting to
push the envelope on LinkedIn, and trying to be creative. And this
makes for a really fun kind of environment. And of course, the name
of the game in marketing has always been standing out to get a
disproportionate amount of attention. So anything you can do on
LinkedIn right now, especially where people aren’t totally
understanding of, you know this is a professional place, but we can
also have fun. Try to push the envelope with things like meme ads,
or one of the best performing images I ever had was an illustrated
cartoon or comic just stand out a little bit. And don’t be don’t
take your brand image too seriously. Unless your brand guidelines
team is really down your throat. User generated content creative is
trending really high right now on Facebook. And I don’t think it’s
going to be very long until we start seeing a lot of that on
LinkedIn, too. So feel free to jump the gun and start moving the
direction that we’ve seen people on Facebook have success with in
the past. Okay, I’ve got some great episode resources for you
coming up right after the break. So stick around.
29:51
Thank you for listening to the LinkedIn Ads show. Hungry for more?
AJ Wilcox, take it away.
30:01
Okay, here’s some great resources for you. First of all, in the
show notes, you’ll see a link to a YouTube video where I did in
just a quick seven minutes, LinkedIn ads versus Facebook ads for
B2B. So pretty much a breakdown of this episode. So if you want to
send this to a boss or a co worker, so that they just get the gist,
that would be a great one to send them. There’s also a link to the
Marketing Land article that talks about how Facebook users spend
about 37 minutes per day on average. So you can see how Facebook,
Snapchat, and Instagram all compare with daily usage. You’ll also
see the link to the word stream article from 2018, where they show
that people spend about 17 minutes per month on LinkedIn. Also, if
you’re just looking to get started with LinkedIn ads, because I
know many of you are, check out the course that I did with LinkedIn
Learning, All About LinkedIn Ads. It is pretty much the whole first
hour and a half of what I teach people when I go to train teams
internally, individually, and for that, I charge $500 an hour for
that training. And I think on LinkedIn, you get it for $25 bucks if
you don’t have LinkedIn Pro, or if you do have LinkedIn Pro, it’s
free. So it’s a great course to get you started. On whatever
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initiatives.